Who Owns Ho’oponopono

This is Kathy, Mark’s wife. Mark is traveling. He asked that I write some of my thoughts down and share them with you. Mark will write or record a podcast sometime in the next day or so with some of his thoughts on recent events.

Thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts with you.

In our judicial system, there is a process that works very well using discovery, debate, and discourse in order to expose the truth so that finality and healing may occur. Evidence is brought forward during discovery, and lawyers present that evidence in a forum meant to determine what is truth and what must happen in order for healing to occur.

Last week, you probably noticed that Mark came forward after a couple of months hiatus from public communication. He and I both spent this time in introspection and discovery of our own, so that we could heal after some rather rough realizations.

Mark also began working on his new product, Subliminal Clearing: Z Plus Advanced Ho’oponopono, which he announced via a successful teleseminar, email mailings, blog posts, and twitter messages.

Our hope is that Mark’s product is a successful first step in communicating the vast and amazing wealth of information Mark has accumulated and developed.

During the process of announcing Mark’s new project, I noticed some minor interference from Joe on his twitter account. Hours after Mark’s first mailing, Joe Twittered: “What’s beyond Zero Limits and ho’oponopono and LOA? Don’t get stuck. Go to the next level. http://www.awakeningcourse.com”

Now, Joe and Mark have had their differences… differences that stemmed from Joe’s decision to not pay Mark (though he was promised payment) for the work he did in Russia. I personally didn’t feel like this Twitter message was a big deal, and both Mark and I blew it off. After all, we experienced much worse last fall.

Neither of us even subscribe to his mailings any more, so we wouldn’t have even known this message was posted except for the fact a friend alerted me to it. To me, it was no big deal and we were focused on getting the product launched.

Right after Mark announced his product, Joe announced that he was writing “Beyond Zero Limits” and began to solicit input from his fans on his twitter account.

I thought that was kind of a sad desperate attempt to derail Mark, but it seemed kind of minor, so I didn’t think much of it. Besides, it was completely contradictory of his previous statement that his Awakening Course was the answer to what was beyond Zero Limits and ho’oponopono and even LOA.

None of this affected Mark much at all; he was too focused on making the teleseminar the best he could.

On Sunday, a friend forwarded me an email that Joe sent to his list with the subject line: “Beyond Zero Limits: Advanced Ho’oponopono.” In this email, Joe says, “I never planned to reveal these advanced ho’oponopono methods until I began to see people promoting false and misleading information and saying it was ho’oponopono.” And later, he says, “Please don’t be taken by all the people who claim to know or teach ho’oponopono. Dr. Hew Len warned me about them and sure enough, they’re out there. Stick with the original source of the Zero Limits message.

Let’s see, there are a LOT of people teaching ho’oponopono, but only one of those teachers announced a new product called Advanced Ho’oponopono this week… and that person happens to be a former friend of Joe Vitale’s… a former friend who Joe threatened to ruin financially in an email last fall. (I still have that email, by the way.) I can only assume that Joe is attempting to discredit Mark. Unless of course Joe means another teacher of ho’oponopono.

No matter who he means, the statement Joe makes that he is the only source of knowing about ho’oponopono is egotistic and false. It is reminiscent of the medieval Church telling people that the only way to God and spiritual knowledge was through them. Oh, and don’t forget to tithe 10% of your income so that the church elite can commission fancy artwork… just like Joe Vitale commissions fancy cars and paintings of himself.

Dear Joe, you’re NOT the only source of knowledge of ho’oponopono. You’re not even SOURCE, you are only a vessel, a messenger. The Divine brought a message to you, you saw a way to make money with it, and the Divine used you to bring that message to a wider audience. For that, I am thankful. The rest of your antics were minor in comparison to what needed to be done. But that’s done now.

And now that ho’oponopono has been brought to a wider audience, Spirit is finding other, less tainted messengers and vehicles through whom to communicate. I personally feel that Mark is one of those teachers… but there are others. MANY others.

Joe Vitale does not own ho’oponopono any more than BP owns the Gulf of Mexico…. but Joe certainly seems to attempt to taint ho’oponopono much in the same way, by leaking his anger-laden data all over it.

Mark has been traveling, so I wondered whether or not I should even tell him. Someone else beat me to it, so I gave him my two cents.

I told him I was cleaning on it, but I also thought it was important to answer this communication somehow. But I also said that I thought that the people who have been listening to Mark for years — and even those people who listened to Mark’s work through Joe’s words — would be able to discern whether or not Mark was able to teach ho’oponopono… and these people would also be able to discern whether or not Joe is able to teach ho’oponopono (with Mark no longer providing that spiritual support and knowledge behind the scenes).

So, my take on things is to let it go. I’m not going to answer Joe’s points with evidence in this arena. Mark’s work speaks for itself, just as Joe’s work speaks for itself. In this case, I don’t have to do a line-by-line rebuttal to Joe’s email.

But here’s the problem… because Mark gave so much of his teaching and understanding to Joe (who repurposed and repackaged much of Mark’s knowledge as his own, from my observation), I believe it is only fair to all involved that we go through the discovery process, and engage in debate and discourse so that the truth can come out for healing.

Those who resonate to depth and spiritual growth will resonate one way. Those who want to use ho’oponopono only for material gain will resonate another.

The chips will fall where they may. They always do. :)

It’s nice. After all of the awful personal attacks we endured privately from Joe’s horrible emails last fall, I feel healed. Yes, ho’oponopono works. I don’t feel violated by his latest email at all.

I honestly feel that those who resonate to Joe’s message that he is some kind of guru and has The Only One True View of Ho’oponopono will continue to resonate there, and those individuals should stay there for whatever reason. Maybe someday they’ll be ready for something deeper, and I trust the Spirit that they’ll find that teacher. I’m personally partial to Mark’s message and I have been for over 3 years. But I trust that whatever teacher is right for that individual will be brought to them.

After all, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Maybe YOU will be one of those teachers.

It doesn’t have to be Joe Vitale. No one owns ho’oponopono, just like no one owns your own personal Divine Zero State.

As Mark said in his blog post announcing his new product, he has a perspective based on his experience in hypnosis and NLP. He’s not trying to be a guru. I personally think that Mark’s perspective is amazing. It’s even more amazing when he’s working one-on-one with people. I hope you get to see and hear that, too.

Healing in this case, rather than dictated by a judge or jury, will come through a core group of aware individuals working on clearing the data that is coming to light through discovery.

That healing will come through you. :)

I do hope that you continue to listen to Mark’s zero-cost teleseminars on advanced ho’oponopono. I trust that you can decide for yourself whether or not one human being owns the path to the Divine Zero State… or whether or not a shared perspective, understanding and experience is warranted… especially in these times.

edited to add: Please also check out this post, containing an audio Mark did on June 1, 2010.

102 Responses to Who Owns Ho’oponopono

  1. Jason Miller says:

    I’ve been in contact with Mark on and off the last six years or so. He’s coached me a few times and I’ve met him personally at a couple of seminars. I stand behind you and Mark on this one. There’s room for everyone in abundance. I see no reason to give any ego-based threats any energy other than love. I wish you and Mark the best.

    • RevRonRants says:

      Well Kathy, you’ve obviously hit a nerve with the self-proclaimed “Buddha of the Internet,” and he’s striking back with his standard passive-aggressiveness. He writes:

      “Maybe one litmus test is to see if the person or organization selling ho’oponopono practices unconditional love and 100% responsibility. If they (or their followers) spend time criticizing others or blaming others, it may not be the place to shop.”

      An interesting statement from one who strives to project a benevolent, unruffled image in public, yet seethes with rage at the slightest criticism in private, as anyone who actually knows him will attest. Despite what Joe would have us believe, our critics are our greatest teachers and dearest friends. They mirror our behaviors that so desperately need cleaning on, but we have to be open to that criticism.

      Sure, there are those who revel in the opportunity to belittle another in order to make themselves feel better. The only difference I’ve seen (having known Joe since about 1994) is that some are at least honest in expressing their disdain, while others attempt to couch their belittling in more benevolent-sounding tirades. Joe’s latest blog post is, IMO, a good example of the latter, and consistent with his previous responses to anything that might adversely affect his cash flow.

      I will give Joe his due; he is a reasonably effective salesman. However, when he ultimately discovered that promoting shake-and-bake spirituality was more lucrative than hawking assorted MLM businesses and minor-league celebrities, he entered a realm that was beyond his intellectual (and apparently spiritual) reach. Those whose only real education in spirituality – and particularly in Buddhism – found his information appealing, while those whose commitment to growth inspired them to delve more deeply soon learned that enlightenment is not achieved by purchasing a series of infomercials, and that Divinity has no reason to withhold “secrets” from humanity.

      Along the same lines, I think it pertinent that a stream of people who have been closely associated with Joe have turned away from him in disgust because of the way he has dealt with them. No matter how loudly he might protest that the “shortcomings” were theirs, or claim that he “blesses” their efforts, the single common denominator in the ending of the relationships has been Joe himself. And no matter how gracious his “blessings” might appear to those who don’t really know the man, those of us who have had a personal relationship with him know all too well the anger that lies behind those “blessings.” If there is a “litmus test” by which to determine a true teacher, perhaps it should be to “gaze with hunter’s eye” at how that person deals with those closest to him, and to look objectively at the priorities the person sets for him or her self. A true teacher’s greatest aspiration is to give their knowledge and see their students stretch beyond the teacher’s awareness. Accolades, wealth, and status are nothing more than annoying flies, buzzing about the true teacher’s head and distracting him or her from a true path, rather than things to be constantly collected, hoarded, and paraded before others. I offer once more the question, “What would Buddha drive?”

      • Kathy says:

        Hey Ron, thanks for your observations and providing an opportunity to respond.

        I personally don’t feel that Joe’s message is anything to get heated up about. He has a right to say what he wants, and at least he acquiesces enough to say *gasp* that there are other good teachers out there, which is contradictory to his original email. Or maybe he just forgot to include that. Funny, I assumed “stick with the original source of Zero Limits” following the warning that Dr. Len said there would be “others out there”…. blah blah… well, I kinda assumed that it meant exactly what Joe said.

        Here’s the real deal though. If you go to that wikipedia article about ho’oponopono where they talk about the practice, define it, and it’s Polynesian antecedents, the crux of the practice is GETTING SECRETS OUT IN THE OPEN. In Vanatu, people believe that secrecy creates illness. The purpose of ho’oponopono is to cut the cords so that people can re-attach clear and clean.

        I personally believe that bringing this to light, sending it love, requesting that others do the same, is probably the most unconditionally loving thing that Mark could do. Unconditional because he has to completely let go of outcome… no conditions, just “let’s get beyond this.” And if it means they go their separate ways, then that’s what they do. But at least Joe won’t try to strike out at Mark when Mark is just trying to teach what he knows like he did Sunday if they’re both clear, right?

        I am not blaming Joe for anything. His words didn’t DO anything to me. Or Mark. How can I blame him for an action that did nothing?

        I am not criticism him personally; I don’t believe in personal attacks. It’s more important to me to discuss issues and actions. I thought it was a low, inaccurate and unfair statement to say that people should “stick with the original source of Zero Limits” a few days after Mark launches his product. And that was my beef. Period. And that’s what I kept my entry focused on.

        I wish Joe well. There’s room for his message. I hope he keeps communicating it. But for him to say there isn’t room for anyone other than the original source of the Zero Limits message (which he apparently is now recanting), that just doesn’t have any validity whatsoever. And I felt the need to say that.

        That, of course, like most other things I and others have said here is my opinion, and others are entitled to their opinion.

        And, that will probably be the last I say about what Joe wrote this morning. his post still does not get to the heart of the matter.

        • Kathy says:

          P.S. If anything, I am grateful beyond measure that Joe did say those inaccurate things and motivated me and Mark to speak out our opinions. It has allowed us all to grow in knowledge, understanding, love and healing. Seriously. I feel lighter, cleaner, and better about Mark’s work and the relationship with Joe than I ever have.

          Funny, Mark and I thought we were doing really good and were getting clearer by the moment… and then this happens and Spirit shows us what we don’t know… lol, that we can get a lot clearer and cleaner.

          Just goes to show you that what Mark says — IT’S ALL PROCESS, that we’re all works in progress — is entirely true.

          So thank you to everyone, thank you JOE! and thank you Divine Spirit for showing me what I did not know!

          I love you.

      • Aymee says:

        Wow! REvron,
        That must be one of the most eloquently written statements I have EVER read!

        • RevRonRants says:

          I appreciate the compliment, Aymee… but you probably need to get out more! :-)

          Namaste

          ( BTW – I really do appreciate your feedback. If I didn’t, I would’ve written “Blessings”)

  2. Aymee says:

    I have to admit that a few years ago, I was very taken by Joe Vitale. I was a HUGE admirer. I always choose to see the good in people even when there is obvious evidence that points to the contrary.

    I understand that as human beings, we are not perfect, and the message can be pure, while the messenger is not.

    I understand that each one of us has a filter that clouds our ability to see truth (DATA) , and perhpas this is tainted by mine but I can tell you this much.

    It is truly a sad day when someone as gifted as Joe vitale, knowingly “borrows” from Mark and gives him no credit. It is even more unfortunate, in my humble opinion that he is behaving in such a blatantly competitive and shocking way sending out the tweets and email to try and discredit mark.

    Joe must think people are stupid. I have been on to him, and the way he manipulates folks, it’s just sad.. and shocking.

    I understand people like Joe. He studies the way people think, feel and understand concepts so he can use his gift of words to manipulate. The fact is, he probably does not even realize that what he is doing is wrong.

    You see.. I have a theory about that,

    Joe was so abused by his father as a child, he built up an incredible self-preservation mechanisim, and that is still his prevalent way of thinking. Sure he may have changed some minor things here and there but look at his track record. Look at who he followed for years (Rajneesh).

    He is in fact, acting in the highest form possible that he capable of. Sociopaths cannot help but act the way they do…

    I know this sounds like a barage of judgement against Joe, but it really is not, these are observations of someone who has lost his way, and is so entrenched in a group think situation that he cannot get himself out.

    He is LOST, period!

    Standing from the outside I have seen Joe undergo a process of self-absorption, and shift from teaching prosperity to absolute greed and megalomaniac behavior ( for lack of a better term).

    I understand about boundless material prosperity, and that we in fact deserve to have EVERYTHING material that we desire, and do believe life is meant to be enjoyed… However I have yet to understand how collecting a bunch of cars to satisfy the hole in the soul is spiritual. Its so painfully obvious. even to a naive person like me.

    What saddens me the most about this is that we all know how the story turns out. Karma is something that is inescapable. Its a universal law of cause and effect.

    More than aything , I am truly saddened about the falling out, and that reinforces what so many people criticize about this self-help business. Self help gurus, are the ones in most need of help. Without a doubt, we teach so that we many learn.

    Mark, is an incredibly bright man, with an amazing heart. Someone who does not abuse his knowledge, or use it against others. His moral compass is intact and that is in fact a RARE find these days.

    In conclusion, I realized, at the last event I attended that Joe is not capable of much more than studying the behavior of others for his own personal gain… That is my personal observation… This has nothing to do with Mark or what he has done to him.

    That being said, I love and support Mark .. His work has helped me evolve tremendously..

    All I ask is for peace for all of you, and for Joe’s sake I hope he wakes up and realizes what he is doing is just wrong….

    I love you guys, God Bless

    Aymee

  3. RevRonRants says:

    Great post, Kathy (though I’d imagine it will ruffle a few feathers)!

    I find it reassuring that more and more people are beginning to perceive something that I first saw 15 years ago. It’s not so much satisfying (well, perhaps a little bit!), as I like to think that anyone can ultimately change behaviors and thought patterns that hold them back – even Joe. It is reassuring simply because it offers further proof that truth will outlive illusion, and that people are ultimately incapable of concealing their true nature from those who get close to them. One can distract others for a time, but ultimately, they will see into the heart of their teachers, and learn to turn away from opportunism and seek real growth.

    Mark and I have had our own verbal slugfests in the past, but I think we’ve both come to realize that our goals were at their core, the same, and our paths more similar than we had first thought. We just needed to step beyond the obstacles and distractions and look at those goals dispassionately and objectively. And to remove ourselves from the influence of those who “bless” their critics publicly, yet seethe and retaliate privately.

    • Kathy says:

      Ron, thanks for your comments. If I recall correctly, the “slugfest” centered upon Mark’s defense of Joe at the time, wasn’t it?

      As always, thank you for the support and kindness both you and Connie have shown us during this difficult “awakening.”

      • RevRonRants says:

        Yes, Kathy, you remember correctly. Connie snarked, and I said some pretty harsh (but true) things about Joe, and Mark defended the man he thought to be his friend. It got out of hand. But I think we all learned from the experience. Among other things, we learned that sometimes friendship can lead to excessive harshness, at other times, that harshness can lead to friendship, and at still other times, friendship is but an illusion.

        Wishing you both the best!
        Ron

  4. Tyalor says:

    I love how we as The Divine Self create illuions outpicturing events/situations perfect for each to feel the discomfort/judgment/etc to relaim our True power/Self in this amusement park of life. Great for all involved!
    Shine on
    Clean on
    Thank you
    I love you

  5. Godwin Wong says:

    This sounds like what the Catholic Church went through in middle ages and how other denominations appeared. I hope those who study Ho’oponopono use it to understand and resolve this misunderstanding. Perhap Joe and Mark or whoever perceives some conflict to use the old method of Ho’oponopono with an impartial moderator to resolve this family squabble. Air out what is the greivance, and forgive each other.

    On another note, I see the conflict also with Vincent Wingo and Dr. Hew Len. Both claim to be one true Hawaiian spiritual practice. I think they should also practice what they preach.

    I love you. Thank you.

    • Kathy says:

      This is exactly what I hoped for in understanding and love… and that those who read this and understand will also clean on the experience so we ALL can move on.

      Thank you

      • Symone says:

        Hello.

        This situation presents us with the chance to clean on all “negative” behavior involved and be rid of it once and for all. I actually think that it is a good thing that it has happened in this manner with such a large number of people reading it as long as everyone is cleaning on it. Don’t allow bitterness to creep in. If it is bringing anything negative out of you, individually (each reader) that is something to be thankful for – it is being revealed! Let’s work together and resolve this, not only within the people involved in this specific situation, or within ourselves because we are involved by reading it, but let’s resolve it completely from all of creation. Working together we can do it.

        Clean, clean, clean, clean, clean…..and clean some more!

        I love you.

        I am sorry.

        Please forgive me.

        Thank you.

  6. Roy says:

    I have purchased several products from Joe. I quit buying any of his products several months ago because I sensed that something was not right. After reading the blog today it became clear as to my building distrust of Joe and what he really stands for. Thanks for all the comments and the letter from Mark’s wife. I bless one and all.

  7. Fran says:

    Namaste.

    My only purpose in being is to become enlightened. Not for the self but to help ease the suffering of those still identified with the false self. (I am still one of those).

    Ordinarily it would not be wise to engage in defense of the self; it is understandable however, in this internet age one may wish to respond.

    It is my deepest prayer for healing for all who have accepted a part in this data.

    Shall we try to see the great opportunity for healing that has been born from our connectedness? I honor the path the Divine has chosen to reveal Ho’oponopono to the world. I trust this path is perfect and in service of the greatest good.

    I celebrate the success of all who have enjoyed material success as well as those who have experienced conscious awareness out of the wisdom of Ho’oponopono.

    I appreciate you Mark, mostly for your purity of intention.

    Each of us is perfect, only living in our perspective of un-reality. It is wise to see this experience from multiple perspectives. The truth is – no one of us is right or wrong…

    We are only where we are on our journey to enlightenment.

    Thank you for the beautiful expression of love, vulnerability, peace and service.

    I see the perfection in you.
    I love you. I’m sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.

    Dedicated and in service to your awakening.
    Fran

  8. James Piver says:

    Thank you Kathy, I am grateful for your words. We know that to whom much is given, much is required. I am thankful for the example you and Mark are living. We all have our challenges and Joe is apparently facing tremendous challenges and temptations. Assuming he is cleaning and practicing his way of Ho’oponopono, those memories which are challenging him now will fall away.

    Fear is a powerful influence.

    It’s my job to take 100% responsibility for what is going on in me that I am experiencing this “scenario with Joe and you and Mark and Ho’oponopono.

    I feel great peace regarding this.

    I love you all !!!

    Peace of I.

    Wai Ali’i,

    Jimmy Piver

    • Milla says:

      You are very right Jimmy Piver. I agree with you.

      It’s my duty to take 100% responsibility for what is going on in me that is causing all these frustration among these family members of Ho’Oponopono who all know better.

      I feel great peace regarding this.

      I am sorry!
      Please forgive me!
      I love you all!
      Thank you!

      Peace of I.
      Aloa.
      Milla

  9. Russ says:

    Joe has lost a customer. I am done with him. He should know better than to act like this. I am unsubscribing form his emails today.

  10. Jennifer says:

    I went off Joe a couple of years ago when he advertised a website that said, only US$1 to get onto it (great deal) and forgot to mention in the same letter that it would cost more than that after a week. I thought it was simply dishonest. Reading this it seems that some of the pieces fall into place. No, I don’t want to participate in the slugfest. I’m sure Joe is a good person. And the only product I have of Mark’s is one where he’s videotaping Joe, among other things, buying a car. It was supposed to bring me prosperity. It brought me jack squat (although I watched it faithfully every day) and turned me off ho’oponopono forever.

  11. isabelle says:

    i’m a french canadian and not a lot of people around me knows or talk about ho ponopono…….Joe VItale was my mentor for years………..i’ve also learn about Mark in the way………..reading this e-mail………..dear Kathy…..you are so right in your way of responding to joe’s attacks!!! I guess he’s lost!!! I will now follow your husband Mark as he sure seems to be honest in his way to do things and sharing them………..hope Mark’s work will soon be translated in french and hope to see you guys come down here in Montreal, Quebec!!!

    God bless you all………..and Joe also……..he needs it!!

    I love you
    I’m sorry
    Please forgive me
    Thank you………..

    :)
    Isabelle xx

  12. Linda Miller says:

    I am also very active in sharing Ho’oponopono, being careful NOT to teach it as I signed a non disclosure agreement at a live event with Dr. Hew Len.

    I believe the simple answer is in each of us accept 100% responsibility.

    If we each accept 100% responsibility, there is no reason to look to anyone else.

    I love you, I am sorry, Please forgive me, Thank you.

    I DO love you.

    Linda

    PS – I have a fairly large Ho’oponopono group at Facebook for those who want to connect. It is The Secret of Ho’oponopono

  13. Hi Kathy,

    Great post, thank you for sharing. I have held back a lot of what I have seen in the past several years around HoOponopono and the Wimberly Mafia. Mostly because I didn’t want it to cost me friends, and in part because I’m not all that interested.

    But I have to speak up here and share what I’ve seen. We don’t need endless cleaning audios like what Pat and Joe keep putting out. We don’t need a bullshit story about I’Haleakala never EVER seeing a patient. We don’t need even the four phrases.

    I’Halekala has said several times when I am around him, “All you need is I LOVE YOU”. “I love you contains the other phrases.” Joe and Pat have made megabucks from hiding the simplicity and the truth that HoOponopono is, and by selling more and more and more “drugs” and “magic pills”.

    There is something that comes, from simply spending a weekend with a man – I Haleakala – who practices “I love you” non stop. There is almost NOTHING that comes from endless false Guru Worship and “cleaning recordings” like what Joe and Pat keep pushing, like drug pushers.

    Just like their silly little russian doll, that it looks like they stole or copied. It’s endless drugs for the druggies who need them.

    Something special happens, when you hang out with HUMBLE special people. Like the night we all hung out and experienced NON STOP miracles for several hours. Something DANGEROUS happens, when ego gets out of control, and a SILLY HUMAN decides that he is the all knowing authority – like it seems like Joe is doing.

    So now what?

    You all keep being the humble special people you are.

    Joe, you keep pushing magic pills. Someday you’ll wake up.

    I rejoice when I see good people coming out of their shells and shell shock – like you all are. I shed a tiny little tear when I notice more drug pushers selling more magic pills.

    Listen folks to the words of I Haleakala. All you need is “I Love You”. Hang out with special people who have committed to DOING THAT, and let your world be transformed.

    Hugs and love,
    Mr Twenty Twenty

    PS: Nobody is perfect. We all can fall. I say a prayer often for all of us, because as we rise and remember what we really are, it’s so tempting to “become special”, instead of just “being the love that we are”.

    • James Piver says:

      Thanks Mr. Twenty Twenty for your sharing your experience, perspective and for cutting through the bull shit. :-) The ego loves drama, entertainment, conflict, competition – winners and losers. It doesn’t give a sh-t about love, truth, reality. It has to be right, on top and the center of attention. However, if one keeps cleaning faithfully, the ego will give way and sanity prevail in spite of ones self. I find all this humorous, funny, a game of us human beings doing our thing, a great opportunity to clean and get clear.

      I am grateful for everyone’s sharing here, giving us a chance to hear one another without judging and giving us an opportunity to take 100% responsibility for whatever bothers us and clean it up in us. As Ihaleakala reminds us, then we will all be fine.

      POI, Jimmy

  14. Jacki Harmon says:

    “By their fruits ye shall know them”, let the rest go.

    Judge whatever, then turn it around, and clean it up.

    There is no one else out there who can do anything to us or against us, the Oneness of Being only operates in pure, unadulterated support FOR…. never against.

    We can thank the personification of the “Joe” for yet another opportunity to clean up any sense of competition still lurking anywhere in this universe, and help uncover the relief of cooperation.

    Because I have read this, I will take 100% responsibility for any of this lingering in my memory.

    I love you.

    I am so sorry for any erroneous beliefs I have ever held about anything or anyone. I am so sorry for any erroneous belief I may have ever attached to about competition, being right, blaming, not being “good enough”, feeling superior than, any erroneous beliefs that someone can take something from me, or that I could possibly take something from myself, or that there is even someone else out there, or in any idea of separation. I am truly sorry for any time I may have killed my own, or someone’s joy. I am so sorry for anytime I have ever tried to resist anything, or tried to stop someone from doing anything.

    Please for give me.

    Thank you!

    There’s an old African proverb that I made up…. never look under the tail of an elephant unless you plan on being 100% responsible for the shit that happens.

    I truly love you. Thank you for this opportunity to clean.

    ~LOVE and PEACEFUL LIVING~

  15. Janice says:

    Thank you for the blog. Interesting! I don’t know Joe or Mark personally. I learned Hooponopono in 2002 from an Hawaiian Seer in Oahu, Hawaii.. This orignates with the Hawaiian people and my Hawaiian lineage teacher says not all the secrets held by the indigenious people will be revealed to mainlanders. For this good reaso. This is Ancient and powerful karmic healing and problem-solving technique. I honor that, it is not be exploited, however, hooponopono will work and clean in all ways without the knowledge of those ancient secrets.. The Hawaiians are sharing a valuable prayer and problem solving technique to assist in the rainbow healing of many. I received that email from Joe yesterday. Interesting he said last time he would be with Dr. Len.

    BTW I learned long version written in the manual by Morrah, and there are techniques I learned to use that will never be written down in the manual from its orgin. The history in the Hawaiian culture was considered illegal for them to use hooponopono, because the Hawaiian spiritual practices were considered wrong by the christian missionaries who came to the island. Hooponopono would have died away, Morrah was able to modify this ancient technique to be used for problem solving as long as the wording was acceptable. Dr. Lew seems to have that same respect for it, it is Joe is writing the book. This seems to be an opportunity to put Hooponopono into practice, now more than ever…Joe did need to write Beyond.Zero Limits, because it does leave out a lot of things, He always leaves things out. so that one feels they need to buy more, Joe’s great sales and marketing skills, never totally complete and never the full information to keep you wanting more for the answer. I know advanced techniques of Hooponopono, but I am not writing a book about it.. The system is so powerful, one must be mindful of it with respect. If one wants to be successful, then truth of one’s own intentions would need to be examined by the individual. All relations, mirroring back to us.

    • Kathy says:

      Thank you so much Janice for your perspective!

      For anyone else interested, here’s a link to the Wikipedia article on Morrnah Simeona.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrnah_Simeona

      • Janice says:

        PS. Kathy, I do wish you and Mark the best in all you do.
        All is in Divine And Perfect Order!! That is the Truth.
        Aloha and Mahalo!!

    • Suzi says:

      You post was very interesting, Janice. Fascinating there is a longer version of Ho’opopono. I am happy for you that you were able to learn that technique. Practices like this are important to keep alive.

      • Janice says:

        Suzi, thank you.. I learned an original version taught. “The Hawaiian Way of Life and Ho’oponpono.” I was honored to have friends who live in Hawaii who brought this man to us to learn from him when we were in Oahu. It was a magical gift and one I will deeply honor in my life.

  16. Jim says:

    MY Ho’oponopono…CAN BEAT UP YOUR… Ho’oponopono! :-)

    Take the above statement and insert your favorite spiritual path, healing method, religion etc. in place of Ho’oponopono.

    Reiki? NLP? Hypnosis? Quantum Anything? LOA? The list is endless and the conflicts never end. It is a part of being imperfect and human.

    It is a giant cosmic kindergarten…and it may be nap time. Come on you know you will feel better after a nap. .

    …ZZZZZ..ZZZZZ…ZZZZZZ….

    …yawn. blink, blink…Wow! “I feel so much better now.”

    “Don’t you?” “What were we talking about before?”

    “Never mind… its time to PLAY!”

    • Kathy says:

      LOL Jim, your brevity and perspective are great. Ah, I don’t think “Mark’s ho’oponopono” (though I would probably call it Mark’s perspective on ho’oponopono (and a whole lot of other things, too) can beat up anyone else’s. I think there’s a great marketplace of ideas… and no one owns the marketplace either.

      Let’s play indeed! :)

  17. Frank says:

    I have been a fan of Joe Vitale for many years. His early books helped build my career to where it is today, and I bought / read everything he put out.

    Last year however, he reared his ugly head on his blog when speaking about his experiences in Russia. Upon some questioning, he got defensive and said something to the effect of “Sorry to disappoint you, but I am only human.”

    In that moment, everything I had seen in Joe Vitale came crashing down. I was sorely disappointed, yet at the same time I saw it as a sign from the Universe. The Universe was telling me I was done with Joe, and that I had to look for another teacher.

    I subscribed to his list and bought his products for many years. Today, I no longer do so because I have moved on to other teachers. Joe’s teachings helped me during that part of my personal development quest, but they no longer today.

    • Fabrizzio says:

      Would Frank be willing to share what teacher he has moved on to?

      • Milla says:

        Fabrizzio,
        there are many of honest and sincere masters out there, such as Dr. Wayne Dyer who wrote the Power of intention and other great books; Dr. Eric Hamidi who wrote The secret behing the Secret that explains exactly what to do with full detail what is The Secret, how to use it…more beyond all what Joe wrote to explain or rather to promote The Secret. Dr. Doreen Virtue, etc.
        Milla

  18. Amy says:

    I have purchased products from Joe and was inundated by the constant emails ALWAYS trying to sell more and more products. I got to the point that I unsubscribed because I was tired of the sales pitches. I step away from people when they start calling themselves “gurus” or making themselves better than everyone else. I believe when you are connected, you know when it’s time to let go of people, places and things and move on.

    Joe served his short-lived purpose for me and I appreciate what I learned, which came from Spirit through him. As a person mentioned above, the truth will always come through. It is up to each of us to know our own truth.

    Clear yourself of this situation, bless your enemies and move on. Keep your integrity and worry not of others.

    I wish you and Mark nothing but the BEST!

    Thank you – I Love you!

  19. Suzi says:

    Like Aymee, I was a big fan of Joe’s long before “the secret” came out. I purchased several of his products.

    What I have noticed over the past couple of years or so is that it has become a game with Joe as to how much money he can make. It has become more about him and the money than it is about helping people. I have become quite disillusioned with him and his products.

    I thought Joe did not believe in competition and taught that there was more than enough for everyone. It surprises me that he would be so competitive and try to ruin another’s business.

  20. Paul says:

    Hi,

    This comment is coming from purely good intention and love. What I see here is something happening that makes me sad. I see much judgement and bad feelings on this page coming out of the words. I don’t know what Joe has or hasn’t done privately, or what Mark has or hasn’t done privately. What I do know is that both have helped me better my life, by awakening more and more. I haven’t seen any of Joe’s messages that are negative, but I have read this page, and it has many judgements and negativity in it.

    I ask all of you to step back from the emotion of it all, and to be your own guru for a second, and just place yourself with God, you and God alone. Then, in that feeling, realize what your thoughts are toward both Joe and Mark. There is only love, no matter what they say or do, only love. I’ve yet to meet a perfect person in my life, yet God loves everyone unconditionally. I just ask that each of us try to do the same.

    It is OK if you don’t want to follow Joe anymore, it’s OK if you don’t want to follow anyone anymore, do what is right for you. But please, do it with love in your heart, and not resentment or anger.

    Kathy, I’m sorry for the hurt that you might have felt, but I hope that you can realize that nothing bad ever happens, and that somehow, something in you attracted that event for a great purpose. I just feel that when you wrote this article, you still were feeling the hurt, and I felt it come out in your words, which spreads to all those who read it.

    I hope these words ring true to your hearts, and I wish only peace to all of you.

    Thank you,
    Paul

    • Kathy says:

      Paul – I agree with you. It’s very sad. I don’t want this to be a gang-up-on-Joe-Vitale session. Heck, if Mark or I wanted to lambast Joe, we would have done that months ago. We’ve got far more “data” on Joe than anyone else who has commented here.

      I just want… clarity. See, there’s a blur between the two men and what they teach because so much of what Joe has put out was Mark’s. Mark gave it freely behind the scenes, but when Joe reneged on his promise to pay Mark and Mark realized what a wake up call he was getting, it was apparent that the only thing Mark could do was to begin speaking on his own.

      I never expected Joe to take public potshots in reaction to Mark’s work. But then again, he did warn Mark last fall that if he didn’t step back into line there would be serious financial consequences. I should have expected it.

      I feel that those who as investors in the products we created that have Joe’s name on them, our customers, have the right to hear an alternative viewpoint to Joe’s potshots.

      I hope to God this ends here and that Joe will just let Mark teach what he knows, and Joe can teach what he knows… and let people decide what is of value to them individually.

      That’s exactly what should have happened to begin with.

    • Suzi says:

      Paul, I agree with your post. I have been feeling annoyed with Joe for some time now and was happy I found some place to vent. I should have taken the high road. You know…”If you can’t say anything nice about someone, don’t say anything at all.”

      Kathy is defending her husband. We all know what it is like when someone attacks someone we love. We get angry and want to protect them.

      Thank you for the opportunity to reflect on myself and take responsibility for my thoughts, feelings, and actions. If I don’t want to be manipulated by someone, I simply need to unsubscribe and move one.

      • Kathy says:

        Suzi – what a wonderful comment of humble kindness.

        I’m not really angry, but I am… motivated to set the record straight. Since leaving Austin, I’ve witnessed incredible growth in Mark. He’s gone from someone who was really hurt by a soul-shattering experience and realization to a man who feels and radiates peace and love again… and a comfort to speak.

        Uh, it’s taken 8 months to get to this point. I’m not going to let Joe Vitale use his mailing list to try and plant doubt in people’s minds about Mark… or any other teacher of ho’oponopono for that matter.

        I knew this would stir up a lot… but when things get stirred up, a whole new world can emerge. And it’s time for people to hear and know Mark Ryan for the person that he is… and he’s got an amazing heart, and an even more amazing mind. I hope more people can benefit from his work. It will make this world — and people’s lives – even better.

      • Paul says:

        No problem Suzi, thank you for the thoughts, they are great.

        I understand your point on being angry at first at people who hurt someone you love, but imagine what it would be like for you and that person you love to never be hurt by those things in the first place, because you know with certainty that God is placing everything together perfectly for your highest good. It is this point that we thank God even for the things that might have felt bad to us in the past.

        I know it is easier to see things clearly from afar, but I really am trying to get to that point, where I picture my life as a puzzle or even a game, whatever makes the most sense to you, and God is putting me in situations and giving me circumstances that are the best possible things for me right now, in order to bring me to complete happiness. I feel it is simply my job to thank God for all circumstances, and feel grateful that I am getting closer and closer to being at Zero.

        Hope this makes sense.

        Thank you to all.
        Paul

    • RevRonRants says:

      I have released the anger I once felt toward Joe. My statements are borne not of hate for Joe, but for the love of a path and all those who seek and follow their paths. I am not responsible for others’ actions, but I am responsible TO others. That is an integral part of the Eight-fold Path that I follow.

      It has been wisely said that “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!” A true Buddha would not identify him/herself as such, but would demonstrate Buddhahood with right words and right actions. The phrase is not to suggest the taking up of arms and physically killing a pretender; but merely casting aside any power and influence the person might have. It also means that we should point out the folly of an impostor as we see it, so that others might not be distracted from their path by falsehoods, false “gurus,” and false doctrine. And if others choose to call our actions folly, so be it. We have acted with heart, and fulfilled our responsibility TO our fellow travelers.

      We are all children, making our way through the Garden. And we are all teachers, sharing our truths as we see them, and doing what we can to help our brothers and sisters along the way.

  21. Russ says:

    I have to totally agree with Frank and Amy. I have been turned off with Joe for the last 6 months. The Russia thing, him supporting a Kevin Trudea product (Who everyone knows doesn’t honor his refunds). The constant sales pitches to products that I have already purchased. The list goes on and on. I think Joe is a nice guy, but he is still a marketing guy at heart. I get one product that says move past intention and LOA and then I get an email promoting a product for intention and LOA (Make up your mind). My personal favorite is the email I got after buying zero limits where if I pay $29 (forget actual price) he will send more detailed information on Ho’ oponopono, since so many people flood his email box with confused questions on the prctice. I replied, why should I have to pay, I already purchased the book? He never replied.

    We shouldn’t need tons of clearing audios. “I love you” should be good enough (After all that’s what he told us)

  22. Kai says:

    HO !! Wow, my man Joe seeming to be lettin’ a very wounded inner child run his life from a very hurt and angry place. C’mon Joe, cool out, forgive yourself already. Get over it, get in touch with your heart.
    Well phooey, I never heard of anything before about any of the history of nasty emails etc., and now that I’m aware of it, shoot!, that means I’ve gotta take responsibility for it. So what in myself helped create this whole situation, look inside carefully, what needs to be healed ? Hey that’s easy. Not a bit difficult to remember letting my very wounded inner child run my life from a very hurt and angry place.

    >>I’m finding that what it takes for me to be opening to really loving myself is those lovely 4 phrases
    I’m sorry, Please forgive me, Thank you, I love you.

    I loved your teleseminar, missed it live, great mp3. Lotsa great info, thanks.

    I’ve been eft tapping ho’oponopono into my heart, my body, for the last few months going to sleep, waking up, and yesterday added ho’oponopono to watching the sunrise and sunset.

    Keep up the good work, I loved your teleseminar, you’re so obviously coming from your heart and I’m loving the way your guest’s bring out stuff. So now at sunset I’m cutting the cords, cleaning the glass lettting it all go and letting myself recreate anew however.

    Than you, I love you. Kai

    • Kai says:

      I’m just realizing as I’m ho’oponponoing cutting the cords cleaning the glass that its fun to realize what I’m
      visualizing is the cord feels like it’s something clinging to my neck I want to fling off. That’s something to clean on.

      Thank you, I love you. Kai

    • Kathy says:

      Kai – I love your style. :) Thank you.

  23. Robert says:

    Buddism. Islam. Christanity. Hindu. Judism.Ho’oponopono.
    The message is what matters. Not the vessel in which it is delivered
    Call it what you will; The Divine,the Universe, Bob,whatever.
    I call him God.
    God is Love. God is the universe. God wants us to love one another.
    God hears our prayers. Bless everyone. Leave the judgement to God.

  24. Divakar Siva says:

    I am grateful to Dr.Len,Mark and Joe for bringing me ho’oponopono
    and I will continue to be so!!

    Please forgive me

    I am sorry

    Thank You

    I love you (Dew Drop, Pink Pearls,Blue Ice)

  25. Allison says:

    Yay Robert! I completely agree…
    We must BE love, to everyone at all times, put every other person ahead of ourselves, not only those we like or understand. And yes this is sometimes a challenge, but still a very worthy goal.
    The thing that has bothered me about attraction law is that people (try to) use it for their own personal benefit firstly. Me first doesn’t cut it. Put others ahead of self. Love is the answer.

  26. Mary Mac says:

    I second “Roy’s” opinion. And thanx Kathy for respecting us enough to keep us informed.

  27. Solarzar says:

    Thank you for your honesty in sharing this information. All of us have to watch seeking a Guru or believing we are a Guru.

    Love and Forgiveness to all.

  28. Jan says:

    Hi Mark,
    I know you from a couple of NLP and Hypnosis trainings and to me you have always an honest and sincere person. I have read some of Joes stuff and to me he is always promoting him self and/or his next product.

    You should continue doing your stuff and many will follow you :-)

    Jan

  29. Juliana says:

    Wow! I had no idea any of this was going on. I dropped off Joe’s mailing list awhile ago. Sorry, I don’t know what happened last fall, either.

    Anyway, my heart goes out to you both. No one owns Ho’oponopono anymore than any one person owns LOA. hahaha It makes me laugh to think someone is claiming it as their own. It’s also sad that Joe seems to have slid backwards. Like another commenter said, it seems he feels a lack of abundance where there is plenty for all who wish it.

    Peace, Love, and Gratitude,

    Juliana

    • Janye says:

      I agree with Juliana. I had no idea this has been going on since I, too, unsubscribed myself from Joe’s emails – way, way, way too many!!

      I have learned a great deal from Joe’s books & CDs and I thoroughly enjoyed Mark’s teleseminar the other day. I plan on making a CD of it to listen to in my car and when I’m resting. The process brings me such inner piece and I am thankful to both Mark & Joe for bringing it into the mainstream.

      My intention is to listen to Mark more. I have ordered his Subliminal Clearing: Z Plus Advanced Ho’oponopono. Can’t wait!!

      It’s great that Mark is being more “out there” for those of us who are ready to hear what he has to say about this wonderful “I love You” cleaning/clearing process. There are NEVER any accidents – ever! Sometimes we’re PUSHED with great reluctance to go forward toward our true purpose. Pretty much sounds like that’s what may have happened with this whole situation. But, then, I can’t stand in anyone else’s shoes.

      Thank You, God, by golly! Ugh!!!! Big gulp…yes, thank you…… Joe. Bless you for shoving me out of my comfort zone. (That’s how I would hope I would be able to see it, anyway.) :-}

      Bless everyone concerned with this challenge. I am very thankful that this has come to the forefront of my thoughts and feelings so I can clean the dust which is smudging my awareness of my true divine identity.

      I trust in the goodness of God, the Divine, and know that all is truly well in the Universe.

      Love and Thank Yous and Forgive Mes and I’m Sorries to one and all!

    • Henry Hall says:

      I had no ide this was going either. Your comments are very good. all these people making these remarks could well be Joe’s downfall. Best wishes Henry Hall

      • Aymee says:

        Henry,

        I am going to be so bold as to say that I dont think anyone here would like to see Joe Vitale “go down” so to speak. The man is brilliant, and I DO believe in forgiveness and redemption. People can experience lapses in judgement and I do believe that people act in the highest form avaliable to them.

        For me personally, I know that I have messed up in my life a few times, and would like to think that whomever I wronged has forgiven me.

        This is all about gaining clarity and standing up for what is right.

        Blessings

  30. Wally Conger says:

    I first heard of Ho’oponopono about two years ago from Joe’s Awakening Course, then read the ZERO LIMITS book. I’ll always be grateful that God put those items in front of me at a time when I most needed them.

    But I refuse to believe that any spiritual teaching “belongs” to anyone. If it does, it’s no longer spiritual, IMHO.

    Does Billy Graham own Christianity?

    Did Alan Watts own Zen or Taoism?

    Likewise, does Tony Robbins own NLP?

    Nonsense.

    If Joe has something new and valuable to teach, fine. I may go along for the lesson.

    Just as I’ll pay close attention to the lessons in Ho’oponopono that Mark has to offer.

    The more teachers, the better!

    Let’s all learn. Then pay it forward!

  31. Fran says:

    There is no thing that is not connected. We are all connected and there is nothing in Joe that does not also exist in me and in you. We are One.

    Kathy, might I suggest a group intention for transcending this data? I run a group intention project and would be happy to facilitate. Otherwise, I am available to support you in any way you may desire.

    Let’s release and be free of the illusion of attachment, grasping and disconnection.
    It is my intention to recognize and embrace others’ suffering and success as my own.

    Namaste,
    Fran

    • Kathy says:

      Fran, of course! I definitely would welcome a group intention! Let me know how I can support you in facilitating this. I’ll email you by end of evening!

  32. Milla says:

    Right Fran. You got it. What is the purpose of Ho’Oponopono? To cleaning, to resolve ours problems, isn’t it?
    Let take the opportunity to clean.

    Milla

  33. Ray says:

    I became disillusioned with Joe when listening to Zero limits if you remember he didn’t know what to ask Dr. Len for as he already had the books, the success, the cars, the homes, life partner, health and happiness blah blah blah!!! I thought man! how big is this guys ego …..
    Ho’oponopono teaches you to let go of your ego, difficult I know but it obviously wasn’t working for him.
    It can’t be working for me either as here I am judging!! haha
    Anyway I’m with you Mark & Kathy on this one!!
    Take Care!!
    Ray

    • RevRonRants says:

      We should remember that a “big ego” is never big because it is healthy. When a part of our physical body is swollen and enlarged, it is an indication of trauma or disease. The ego is no different. Just like a physical organ, the ego must be large and robust enough to allow us to function confidently, but not so large that it loudly declares itself.

      In an adult, a “big ego” is little more than a mask, behind which is hiding a frightened and confused child. Sadly, the adult’s behavior frequently prevents others from offering the desperately needed but ultimately ineffective nurturing, and there aren’t enough cars and accolades in the world to fill that hole in the soul.

  34. Jarlin says:

    Hi out there, I started out as a big fan of Joe, but through time I’ve seen he haas become such a selfish and greedy person…..
    I am very disappointed, so sad what he became….
    I just wonder what Dr. Hew Len thinks……
    One thing is for sure….. lots of garbage to clean and to be responsible for
    I’m sorry
    Please forgive me for whatever is going on me that I experience this situation.
    I love you
    Thank you

  35. TB3 says:

    I totally get it. When we write wounded words of ego into the script it always brings forth more of the same experience. Isn’t it sad how we want to believe we are seperate from each other? Love and forgiveness to all of the one of us. :) We as ALL rock (whether or not we throw them at each other from time to time!)

  36. Chuck Davis says:

    I wonder if Joe’s letter even desereved a response really? If you are guided by the divine to put together an advanced Ho’oponopono program, of course the the divine will make sure it prospers. Whatever Joe is doing is Joe’s business….let’s hope he prospers too. I believe his email didn’t even deserve a response. If he is indeed being petty, why respond. Just move out and let your success speak for itself. Just my opinion.

    I am happy to see Mark and Kathy are settling in Mount Shasta. I hope you both come up to Vancouver soon and visit. Maybe Mark can come do a workshop.

    I love you all. Thank you.

    • Kathy says:

      Chuck – I pondered that very question for a long time. I chose to write a blog post. Mark encouraged me to mail it to the list.

      What is done is done, so I won’t second guess my inspiration. In retrospect, I still feel I did the right thing.

      • Chuck Davis says:

        If it was right for you, then so it is. Sometimes releasing is rejuvenating. Now, time to move on and change the world…as you have already been doing. Thank you and Mark for the change you are.

  37. eric webb says:

    Kathy and Mark,

    It has just taken me back by surprise this who incident. I had met both Mark and Joe at the Miracles weekend In San Diego, CA a few years ago. I liked both persons, and thought each one had a unique gift. I knew they were business partners, and had created audio/dvd programs together.

    I am just in shock to see this conflict going on between Joe and Mark. I thought they were good friends and business partners? What happened? Was it ego? Was it greed? Was the money so good, that there were disagreements on this?

    I am not sure what to feel or think of this situation. I liked both Mark and Joe. I admired how each one had achieved great success and overcame many obstacles in life.

    I do hope this situation gets resolved, and that an agreement can come between Mark and Joe.

    I see that this conflict I am responsible too. In Hopo’ everyone is responsible, and that includes me. I guess I will have to do more clearing, more prayer and meditation to help resolve this issue.

    I hope it all works out for the best…

    I’m Sorry, Please Forgive me, Thank You, and I Love You…

    Eric Webb
    San Diego, CA

  38. Xavier says:

    I support Mark. There is no need to condemn Joe. He will learn, in due course.

    • RevRonRants says:

      Anyone who has ever raised a teenager knows that it’s possible to embrace the person, yet not their actions. If the person’s actions scream so loudly that you cannot hear their loving words, the best course of action is to bless them, wish them growth, and proceed on your own path, far removed from whatever toxicity they might be holding and manifesting.

      By the same token, we are responsible not only for our awareness, but to our fellow travelers. To observe the “emperor,” yet not remark on his lack of clothes is to abdicate our responsibility to the goal of universal awakening. Just as we observe, recognize, and point out the unacceptable behavior of an errant child in our efforts to teach our own children – and scold our own children when they emulate that behavior – so should we use our intuition, our common sense, and our love in recognizing destructive behavior in others. And if we see that another is being distracted or harmed by that behavior, the greatest act of personal – no, global – kindness that we can perform is to share our wisdom, even as we acknowledge that our wisdom is flawed. It is through the sharing of humanity’s individual flawed wisdom that true wisdom is achieved.

      We love our children enough to show them their own folly, and to try to protect them from the pitfalls of following another person’s. If we are to practice Right Living, can we do no less for others whom we meet on our path? After all… we’re ALL children, meant to walk hand in hand through our lives.

      Then again, since my feet still are bound to the earth, I am also bound to get angry, to judge, and to wander off my preferred path on a daily basis. But as long as I know and admit that I’m doing it, and don’t try to lead others down a path borne of my own fears, I can still tell myself with a degree of honesty that there’s hope for me. That, in a nutshell, is what I’d most like to see people like Joe do. And ultimately, to have him ask himself, WWBD? (“What would Buddha drive?”) :-)

      Namaste
      Ron

      • Kathy says:

        And sometimes, there is a law of natural consequences. I’m not yet sure how this applies to a teenager (God help me, someday these two kiddos will be teenagers…)

        but insofar as it applies to children… there are some things I won’t let my kids do and I will intervene strongly… like running into a busy street. There are other things – like doing homework, that I strongly encourage, but I don’t want to disrupt my world (anymore) with Max’s sporadic refusal to do it.

        And there are other things that might hurt them, and I’ll tell them “Don’t do that, you’ll get hurt…” and if they keep doing it and get hurt, they learn by natural consequences not to do said thing. I have to let go of my control (in most situations) even as a parent so that my kiddos can learn more effectively.

        I swear this is God’s sense of humor: Claire just now learned how to climb on to the kitchen table… is that a good thing? Yes, she’s learning, growing, and mastering her environment. But eventually that learning will turn into a danger I need to watch out for. Lovely, these children. They keep me on my toes. (I can hear you, Ron, saying, “Just wait.”)

        As it applies to my friends, my sisters and brothers, I might advise if I feel advice is welcome. If I see someone might get hurt deeply, I speak more strongly and I might take action. But in any advisement, no matter the strength or interference, there is a moment where I must let go of outcome. My intent is clear… but the outcome of another’s experience is not mine to choose… just as another cannot chose an outcome in my own life.

  39. Sundeep Bilkhu says:

    I agree with the posts.

    Don’t get me wrong, some of Joe’s materials are very good. I am glad I bought Zero Limits 3 and the Awakening Course, but If you look at Joe’s emails they are constantly trying to sell you things. Joe sells you Zero Limits 3 and says intentions are limtaions – they are a “wimp rag” – all you need to do is clear and everything you need is already there. Then the next email you get trys to sell you intentions:

    Such as…

    Attract a new car…

    Psychic Demand…

    Attract Money Now…

    The Secrets To Attracting Money…

    The Solution…

    I think Joe is only interested in how to increase his personal wealth, as these products are what Joe says are designed to “empower” you in the 4 stages, yet if you buy Zero Limits 3 and the Awakening Course, you shouldn’t need these products.

    Correct me if I am wrong, was it not Mark R who introduced Joe to Ho,oponoo

  40. Erika L Soul says:

    Wow what alot of comments here about this. It has stirred up alot of memories even mine, my husband Michael and I talked about this and had a good laugh as we realised our expectations that people shouldn’t have conflict with each other when they are teachers of spiritual paths and then write about it to all .

    We all want to have a say and dive in to it and get dirty meantime in the energy of criticism . Maybe we are bored and want something to go on about?

    Well those who love ho’oponopono and doing the cleaning have heaps to clean on here that we share with each other. Joe is so good at showing us what we dislike in ourselves and judge so thankyou Mark Kathy and Joe for the wonderful chance to let some memories go that I must have too, lots of love to everyone here and all these memories.
    thankyou I love you God Bless you

    May we all see the Love in each other
    the Innocence that we truly are
    and Let go enough to see
    how We are all ONE!

    Soulerika

  41. Fred Black says:

    Mark – I just listened to the recording from your Advanced Ho’oponopono Teleseminar and it’s very helpful. Thank you.

    Joe’s marketing brings a lot of new people to Ho’oponopono, that’s how I found out about it, from Zero Limits. However, as others here have said, Joe’s products always leave room for the next book, dvd, ect. Zero Limits left me with more questions than answers… I’ve found them, or at least some of them, in videos and audios of Dr. Hew Len that Mabel Katz has made available and in the recording from your teleseminar. I’m looking forward to your DVD.

    Listening to and reading Joe, he comes across as a salesman… is that bad or good? Neither, I guess it depends on what you need to hear. Mabel comes across as someone who really cares. You come across like an old friend, and Dr. Hew Len comes across like a grandfather giving advice.

    Fred

    • Kathy says:

      Hey, Fred, thanks for your comment! Mark’s still traveling, asked me to tell you THANK YOU. That’s exactly what he wants to be… an old friend sharing what he knows. Others have their own flavor too. There’s room enough for all. But mostly, he loved how you honed in on exactly how Mark would love to be perceived.

  42. Kathy says:

    Hey everyone, Mark sent me an audio he recorded last night with Oh Be about patterns, ho’oponopono, and healing. There are a lot of wonderful insights in it, things that can be applied to almost any situation. It’s not entirely all about what happened with Joe, though that is the catalyst.

    I’ll do another blog post soon for it, but I wanted to share it with you here now.

    http://budurl.com/n2xf – RIGHT CLICK, choose “save as” or “save link as” (It’s 47 minutes, 21 MB download, MP3)

    there’s so much wonderful insight in this – from both Mark and Oh Be – I hope you enjoy it. (How cool is it when the wake on the lake comes in with the waves, Spirit choose such wonderful synchronistic moments to chime in. :) )

    • Chris says:

      “I love you” contains all 4 statements – let’s remember this during this tempest.

      Traditional Ho oponopono would have everyone involved sit in circle until the conflict got resolved, why not visualize this happening with the whole Ho oponopono community ?

      Mark is awesome, he is shining on his own & in my opinion inspired in his teaching.

      As I see it,Joe is understandably unhappy to lose Mark and may have spoken in anger, he will get over it or face a backlash (being in the public eye teaching forgiveness). Remember how well Dr Len spoke of Joe when they met ? Joe is capable of growing beyond all this ! Joe was the catalyst for many of us discovering Ho o ponopono !

      If we respond with anything less than love we are not practicing Ho oponopono.

      Blessings to ALL teachers of Ho oponopono – I don’t believe anyone can own it – or teach it perfectly !

      Blessings to all students of Ho oponopono – may you rise above all the data until your heart sings with inspiration !

  43. Kathy says:

    It’s funny… I get emails from people who say that it was wrong of Mark and me to say anything about this publicly. And then I re-read the definition of ho’oponopono in the Hawaiian dictionary:

    “mental cleansing: family conferences in which relationships were set right through prayer, discussion, confession, repentance, and mutual restitution and forgiveness.”

    This whole thread has been a family conference of sort in which many of us have confessed, many of us have repented, others have discussed and prayed… some of us have done all of those…

    and if you listen to Mark’s recording – http://budurl.com/n2xf – that is exactly what his intent in coming forward to clear this.

    The analogy of the beach ball being held underwater and the energy required to keep it there was pertinent. The more I see this played out, the more healing, forgiveness, and cleansing I see and feel taking place.

    Thank you to all of you for participating in this family conference. I love you.

  44. Aymee says:

    I have learned much from this experience. Mostly what I need to clean on within ME!

    I for one, cannot understand why anyone would have a problem with you and Mark airing this publicly. AS Mark stated in the recording. Its high time we bring it all out and admit, that just because we are a part of the self-help movement, it does not make us infallible.

    In fact, I will say it again, The best way to learn something is to teach someone how to do it. Is it a surprise then that we teach what we most need to learn?

    We are all human beings and have issues. From conflict arises clarity, from chaos order and so on. We do not live in isolation after all, and we are all here to learn from eachother.

    I personally, feel that all things are forgivable, people make mistakes for a reason, and everything has a higher purpose.

    Thank you guys for opening up the conversation, and providing the space for each and every one of us to say what we are thinking and feeling. Like Mark said, once it comes up, it is released, the lesson is learned, or not but we are evolving through the process..

    I LOVE YOU!

    Aymee

  45. Daniel Escamilla says:

    Hello Mark,

    While I haven’t met you or spoke to you on the phone, I have enjoyed all the products, I have purchased from you and your company Hypnotic I. Jerry Stocking, Wayne F. and John Wingert/20 20 are my friends, and think highly of you and your family and I think very highly of them. I really enjoyed the Jerry Stocking dvd’s you shared with us and help make available through your company, I attended a IC course in 1999, and one of his first sells course live in 2000/Houston. Your work seems to reflect helping people, at deep levels, including noticing their patterns and helping them shifting patterns. I also purchased zero limits 1,2,3 and the clearing dvd from your company, which I recommend to anyone, who would like to find out ,who they really are. I even enjoyed your voice on the healing meditations on the healing art work(strawberries, butterflies, etc..). I remember hearing your voice in one of Jerry’s course mp3′s and I said to myself “Ah! a kindered spirit”

    I am also writing to say thank you for the invitation to the teleseminar, it was GREAT!! I will send my order in soon for the new dvd. God Bless you and your family and thank you for your contributions to all of us. Aloha and Mahalo, Daniel -Kaniala- Escamilla

  46. Helmut says:

    I really don’t understand all this.

    “Begin your day with love.”
    “Do everything you do today with love in your heart.”
    “Do not judge situations.”
    “Practise forgiveness.”

    This is what they all are teaching – right?

    Where can I find this here on this blog?
    In all those write ups?
    In all those replies?
    In all those emails?

    I wish all of you a happy day.
    I wish all of you uncondotional LOVE.
    H

    • RevRonRants says:

      Helmut, what you will find here are people who aspire to a higher state of spirituality, but who aren’t trying to imply that they’ve transcended their humanity. Simply put, if you’re still here, you’re not done. Keep in mind that judging others for being human is still judging, no matter how many “blessings” are tied into the end.

      • Amy says:

        I LOVE YOU Rev Ron!

        You bridge the space between Human Expression (the beings) and the Divine Creative Source well.

        Helmut makes a beautiful point.

        John Lennon made the same point.

        LOVE IS ALL THERE IS.

        LOVE FORCE (Conscious Energy that is Love Force).
        We are IT expressed.

        Enjoy your Journey of Expression (Being)… The Source that you are (We are) is enjoying it greatly!

  47. Amy says:

    So many comments. So much energy flowing. So much “so much”.

    The truth is Ho’Oponopono belongs to no human. Ho’Oponopono is Divinity in form as are all humans. All humans ARE Ho’Oponopono.

    Dr. Hew Len tells the Truth… I Love You is ALL there is. There is no “other”… it is all of the self/Self.

    Dislike another, you dislike yourself. Condemn another, you condemn yourself. Shun another, you shun yourself. LOVE another, you LOVE YOURSELF.

    Humans on this planet suffer from entirely too little Self-Love. Humans suffer DIVISION of themself from themself. I LOVE YOU heals this. As a result of this division of themself from themself, humans suffer illusions of duality. I LOVE YOU heals this.

    Only one thing exists truly… at all… ENERGY (ALL That Is Not) that is projects itself by thought form into ALL That Is (Form and Not Form). That Energy is a Force, Love Force. That Energy, this Love Force is YOU/WE/I/Us/They.

    As expressions of this LOVE FORCE CONSCIOUS ENERGY as human thought-form, we are all experiencing and expanding (learning/growing). Embrace the JOURNEY … it is the whole purpose.

    I LOVE…. THEREFORE I AM. ~ I LOVE…THEREFORE I AM NOT.

    Blessings ALL…. You are me – I am You – We are We. We are Source.

    ~ The Expression of Source known by the label of Amy “AllAboutEnergy” Flynn ~

  48. George says:

    As Charlie Brown would say, “Good grief!”..
    Concepts from A Course in Miracles come to mind -
    You cannot harm but yourself.
    You cannot aid but yourself.

    Guys & gals -
    There’s only one of us here – so -
    Choose to focus on something you desire – or at least something you appreciate.

    Love & Light,
    Health & Abundance,
    Friends & Laughter..

    Al the best,

    George B. Thomas, MEP
    “Consultant to the Stars”

    • RevRonRants says:

      George -

      Certainly, one should attempt to focus their energy and efforts upon all that is positive. However, we should also remember that Siddhartha was raised in an environment where no negativity was allowed, and was only able to achieve his awakening into Buddhahood after gazing into the face of anguish that is such a significant part of the human experience.

      By insisting that we look only at that which we perceive to be “positive,” we are allowing our sensual nature to confine our human experience. Such an approach might be more gratifying and pleasurable than facing the suffering of the world, but if we were pure spirit, freed completely from that suffering, we wouldn’t be here in human form.

      Before the beginning, the single hunger, and the only aspect missing from Spirit was FORM. BEING hungered for be-ing, and thus decided to BE. IMO, we must observe and devour our humanity if we are to fulfill the aspirations of Spirit that brought us here. Before we can turn aside from building our actions and thoughts upon the illusion, we must first know it and acknowledge its hold upon us. And until we face and release as mere distractions those things that seem to separate us from Spirit, we will not complete our journey, and the aspirations of the Divine will go unfulfilled.

      At least, that’s how I see it. I might be wrong.

  49. Pam Pappas says:

    I am sorry
    Please forgive me
    Thank you
    I love you

    HA-WAI-I

    Peace of I,
    Pam

  50. To me, Joe seems like a super-slick carsalesman that you trust until you get ripped-off and has a good with reason for everything (i.e. a good liar always has an alibi)

    It’s one thing to have confidence and it’s okay in my book to be super-slick, I know plenty of super-slick guys with good hearts (like David Letterman) but the intention behind it all is what really matters…

    Obviously Joe Vitale is one of the bad ones.

    I have studied Mark’s work for probably 3 of 4 years or so… and I didn’t always agree with him… in the beginning… but when I tried it on, like a shirt or tie, it was right on the money and I’d rather make progress in my life than just look great and have no substance and allow my shortcomings which in this example is like oil to suck the oxygen out of the Gulf of Mexico, which is my life.

    Keep an eye, your feelings and your ears on Mark, even if it’s just 1%, watch yourself change for the better, permanently.

    GG+

  51. Dear all
    I love you
    I do, but only a human I ask myself sometimes Do you really?
    Yes I do on the true level of who I am, but I do not always feel the emotion of love…

    I am a long time “follower” of Joe Vitale bought zero limits, the Key and the attractor factor and some
    DVD’s and audio’s but in time I (please forgive me) felt being under estimated by his numerous emails
    urging his “followers” to buy the next even better or sometimes the best product.

    It seems to me he was starting to sell “Joe the very succesful high archiever” more and more in different
    packaging…(why do all the products out there have to be sold in such a shouting manner, with all those “testimonies”? a quiet voice can be very soothing and reassuring)

    last january I had a conversation in Palm Springs with a very nice, gifted lady and our conversation came to be a little bit about Joe and his products he sell …. we came to conclusion that he was not decerning his material very well anymore (I am sorry)
    That was the feeling I had and I am grateful to Joe he helped me discover this.(Thank you)

    Joe is wonderful, I think, as Joe but he is too attached to all he have in material things and obviously afraid to lose that.. and well that is only human too.

    Mark stay on your path: nobody can alter your divine path but yourself.

    I love Thank you

    Ferry Verhoeve
    Netherlands

  52. Peter says:

    Hi Everyone,

    I know Mark very well. He is a very good guy, with great intentions, selling quality products.

    While I do not claim to know anything about Ho’Oponopono, or who is the ultimate teacher — I can say with conviction that Mark was a pioneer in researching and bringing this technique to market. I have no idea if Joe Vitale promoted it first, but please do not dispel Mark’s contributions based on heresay.

    I like Mark Ryan and Joe Vitale both very much. There’s room for all and send them BOTH good energy during this difficult time.

    PEACE!

    Thanks,
    Peter

  53. Bill Morgan says:

    I was reading these comments while listening to Portishead’s ‘Strangers’ and the lyrics seemed an apt description of Mark and Joe’s relationship….

    Strangers by Portishead
    Ohh……..
    Can anybody see the light
    Where the morn meets the dew and the tide rises
    Did you realise, no one can see inside your view
    Did you realise, for why this sight belongs to you

    Ohh……..
    Just set aside your fears of life
    Thru this sole desire

    Done it warning
    Done it now
    This ain’t real
    On in this side

    Done it warning
    Done it now
    This ain’t real
    On in this side

  54. Aymee says:

    Good Morning EVERYONE!

    I just wanted to take a moment, to express my deep gratitude for EVERYONE that has posted something here, and especially to my friends Kathy and Mark, for providing an opening for us to do this.

    I LOVE what I have been feeling here for the past few days, we started with one conversation, that began with a bit of turmoil, and have all taken it to another level with the Gulf cleaning intention.

    In my humble opinion, this is what trying to walk down the spiritual path is all about.. Growth, evolution not necessarily perfection.

    I have done much self reflection these past few days, and I am grateful to have peeled back another layer. to have discovered that being authentic, may not be popular, yet is the ONLY option.

    Anyway, pardon the rant.. This was all about me saying THANK YOU! i am grateful!

    Love,
    Aymee

  55. Meg says:

    Dear All, Mark & Joe,

    In the true spirit of Ho’Oponopono, I suggest you both use it for your personal grievances, for my part I can use it on your behalf, hope that peace and understanding will surround you both.

    in light & love,
    Meg

  56. Nancy Davis says:

    I am disenchanted with J.V. after reading this. I read Zero limits and passed along the
    Ho’Oponopono message to many people. I was and still am enchanted by the concept. It has worked well
    for me and many of my friends. I was excited to watch the “Beyond” webinar by Mark when a friend told me about it. We all need to H’po for Joe because it sounds like he has gotten very greedy. Does he not believe that the Universe has enough for everyone? It’s UNLIMITED Joe so lighten up and practice what you preach!!!