Bill

My point exactly. If one’s actions are not so pure that his or her ethics are virtually above question (much less, reproach), they are still bound to their carnal nature (ego). To be awakened is to perceive the ego, but not be driven by it. Nothing wrong with loving the “actors,” so long as you don’t confuse the real person with the part they’re playing.

I know of one self-proclaimed “teacher” who promises his followers the secret to awakening and enlightenment (always for a price, even when promised for free), yet rages whenever his own desires are denied or when anything he says is challenged. He will even go so far as to silence challenges whenever possible. He professes to love his challengers, but I have seen how he will strike out at even those who challenge from a place of love. To claim that such a person is “awakened” or “enlightened” is a futile attempt to lower the bar of spiritual evolvement. Perhaps some feel this is necessary, believing that true awakening is beyond their grasp, and desperately trying to make it more attainable by diminishing its demands (and thus its promise).

Too many people seem to think that “awakening” is to spirituality as an orgasm is to casual sex. In truth, it isn’t a “goal” that must be rushed toward, but rather the natural occurrence, experienced by those who have learned to love the journey, and to grasp and savor each moment, unconcerned about and virtually oblivious to the journey’s end.

From this perspective, beware anyone who tries to sell a map of “shortcuts” to that ultimate destination. That they are selling rather than giving is proof that their motivation is to satisfy their own unawakened desires. And following their “maps,” could well distract seekers from encountering the experiences they need as they make their journey.

“Judgement of any kind is not enlightened thinking”

I disagree. I beleve judgement can be an ally in emotional and spiritual growth. I think there is a big difference between being judgemental and having judgement or discernment. Judgement with wisdom and compassion or having discernment about who we choose to associate with or align ourselves with is necessary to mental, emotional health. Just because you are trying to evolve as a spiritual being I don’t think that means you should check your brain at the door. I’ve often heard people say “we are spiritual beings having a human experience”. True – but let’s value our human experiences as much as our spiritual ones.

Thanks again.

It seems to me that the connection between enlightenment and morality is not direct because the simply operate on different levels of existence. I have no personal experience with an enlightened person so this is purely theoretical, but to my thinking enlightenment relates to connection and insight into the larger patterns/purpose of the universe/divine/God or whatever name you choose. I think that this conversation is confusing the ideas of “immoral” and “amoral”.

One cannot apply the human/cultural/societal definitions of morality to the universal/divine. If we do this then it is immediately apparent (from our limited perspective) that God is immoral. We need only look at the fact that bad/immoral things happen in a world created by this universal divine power.

If OSHO or Tammy Faye or the Buddha is actually enlightened then their choice of behaviors may be driven by a higher purpose than we are capable of understanding. Hitler’s actions can be considered immoral by almost any standard and yet it is plausible that from a divine perspective his existence served a larger and ultimately good function. Even as a limited human I can see that the very conversation we are engaged in here has been made possible by the evolution in consciousness lead (in part at least) by our collective experience of the immorality around us.

Several contributors have explained to the rest of us what it means to be “enlightened” which strikes me a very human and somewhat misguided. I strongly suspect that true enlightenment goes well beyond any explanations we have heard or could even understand. On a simple personal level, I was incapable of truly understanding what it meant to be a “parent” until I had children of my own despite all the reading, talking, thinking and meditating about it I did before hand.

Despite all the esoteric discussion of enlightenment, I return to one of Mark’s key points (as I understand it). Despite knowing or not knowing who is or isn’t enlightened, we as individuals are ultimately responsible for our own choices, actions and the experience of our lives and must, therefore, endeavor to make conscious and conscientious choices. I believe we are each capable of reaching enlightenment on our own both because of and despite everyone else in our lives.

Thank you again for this discussion and for reading this far.